Curse

BigTru · Sep 04, 2005, 01:32 AM // 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

I personally hate FPS because they have no challenge to them besides seeing how many of an opponent you and your team can take on at one time. In an RPG you're trying to figure out a solution to a puzzle or a follow a trail of a clue.

You've never played a good FPS.

Kai Nui · Sep 04, 2005, 01:38 AM // 01:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

You've never played a good FPS.

I've played Halo which is supposedly so good. It's not. I beat it though since I payed money for it, after that I did some PVP on it, and that is the only good thing on it because you're playing with everything unlocked and everyone is on equal ground. The PVE version of halo 1 AND 2 sucked. You get weapons as you progress, you kill monsters and go through a good environment, but that's about it. No puzzles really.

I accept Jesus. Christ where's my PS2?

Weezer_Blue · Sep 04, 2005, 01:39 AM // 01:39

It's off topic, but a few good FPS's have puzzles in them as well... If only someone could make a good rip off of metroid prime that actually required you to aim.

BigTru · Sep 04, 2005, 02:00 AM // 02:00

A good FPS will challenge your reaction speed, not just the number of enemies coming at you. A good FPS will do this usually by adding many suprises. A good FPS makes you use strategy against differant enemies and sometimes has puzzles.

A good RPG really isn't as easily defined in termes of difficulty. It's actually quite tough to add ginuine difficulty to an RPG, let alone an MMORPG.

Most RPGs generally go the route of adding difficulty through grind (ie, having to level up to "X" before even thinking of taking on "X" monster or getting enough gold to get "Y" piece of equipment). This isn't, in my opinion, true difficulty.

Other RPGs that try to break the mold and try making it "Skill > Grind" have a much, much tougher time. It's either too easy or too random. This is especially true for MMORPGS and the such. Chances are, when playing through an MMORPG mission/quest, you have someone who has already done it in your group. This means that if that party member has any sort of communication skills whatsoever, this mission/quest will not have difficulty through means of suprises or requiring differant strategies. So what left is there to do? It seems they are forced to make it seem random to give it a false sence of difficulty.

Puzzles/Clues do not apply to this arguement because both games can use them, but they are a completely differant genre if they change the battle system.

I must admit, Halo was mediocre in every way possible, but the hardest mode of the game was difficult. Very difficult. I have never played a single RPG that was ginuinly difficult. If you can find one, please inform me.

Sanji · Sep 04, 2005, 02:03 AM // 02:03

Puzzles are mostly a single player thing, though. God knows Pick up Groups can are bad enough without being hindered by gates that don't open unless you answer a quiz, light some torches, pull some switches, or move some boxes/statues/jars/whatever the hell around.

I mean, if I wanted to do that stuff, I'd just pick up a Legend of Zelda game.

Now that I think about it, Legend of Zelda online would be awesome. It'd be all "OMG DONT ATTACK THOSE CHIKENS U NOOB, ZONE IT ZONE IT"

warban · Sep 04, 2005, 02:19 AM // 02:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I must admit, Halo was mediocre in every way possible, but the hardest mode of the game was difficult. Very difficult. I have never played a single RPG that was ginuinly difficult. If you can find one, please inform me.

Doom2 Nightmare Difficulty.

MarkyX · Sep 04, 2005, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kai Nui

In FPSs you generally have you killing enemies over and over

system shock 2.

Phades · Sep 04, 2005, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

A good FPS will challenge your reaction speed, not just the number of enemies coming at you. A good FPS will do this usually by adding many suprises. A good FPS makes you use strategy against differant enemies and sometimes has puzzles.

Simply stated, if the game have more to it other than just pulling the trigger of the biggest gun, then it is a good fps (quality of programing aside).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Most RPGs generally go the route of adding difficulty through grind (ie, having to level up to "X" before even thinking of taking on "X" monster or getting enough gold to get "Y" piece of equipment). This isn't, in my opinion, true difficulty.

That is quite simply a time sink and is not a challenge. Most people call that a grind, because the player feels that they have the ability to accomplish the victory condition, minus the current character attributes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

Puzzles/Clues do not apply to this arguement because both games can use them, but they are a completely differant genre if they change the battle system.

Knowing the anwser ahead of time with a good puzzle doesnt matter, because it is more of a matter of how logical of a thinker you are. Some of the best puzzles are not just a matter of recognising what the solution is, but making the solution occur. The actual manipulation of the puzzle being just as interesting as the acknowledgement of the solution being in equal parts in both enjoyment and time spent completing. Only one "puzzle" that is recognizable as one would be the teleporter pads in the desert, but those could have been done a little more efficiently(Field of view issues at times). The other is more intuitive, which are the various statues of the gods This is where the character can gain some benefit through "offerings", but its not directly obvious what the player should do when approaching one if the player has not seen someone else do it before.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I must admit, Halo was mediocre in every way possible, but the hardest mode of the game was difficult. Very difficult. I have never played a single RPG that was ginuinly difficult. If you can find one, please inform me.

Halo was tribes, "but without the fun" as a few people i know phrased it. The first halo wasnt so hard, even on the most difficult level once you got used to the idea of breaking shields. The second one was more annoying in spots, due to the sheer density of enemies versus the amount of ammo you get (grenades become VERY important). Too many times it ended up being, dual suppresion fire, drop alternate gun, throw nade, pickup gun and resume firing and watch bodies fly in various directions. Not much is "hard" after doing things like that mid air against another "flying target" with weapons that require lead, they are only tedious in the single player mode. Nothing quite like a mid air nade to disc chain with a switch to laser rifle for a finishing hit, while landing on the slope and finishing the ski route then covering your landing with some nades out the launcher behind you catching your chaser offguard while in persiut.

Legendary Battousai · Sep 04, 2005, 03:17 AM // 03:17

also try playing Perfect Dark [N64] with 8 Dark Bots/Perfect Bots or however many you can have, and then try and be in first place when its all of them verses you. Only way I could do it was by modifying the weapon-set to non-explosives and getting a bunch of headshots :P but yeah, its one of the hardest FPS games/challenges possible.

Kai Nui · Sep 04, 2005, 04:17 AM // 04:17

Legend of Zelda is actually a pretty good puzzle rpg game come to think of it. It's not based around slaying monsters, although you do it on the side, you're trying to think of how to get around certain obstacles by using certain tools. For those of you who've played Runescape, I beat all their quests without guides and I enjoyed doing it because it didn't dot spots on the map of where to go and many of the riddles and puzzles were tough, and it was incorporated into the system of leveling up skills. That way you couldn't just do all the quests at level 1 but you'd gradually do them as you leveled up.

Aniewiel · Sep 04, 2005, 01:31 PM // 13:31

This thread has veered wildly off course. If the discussion of FPS games is to be continued, it needs to be done in the Off Topic & Absurd forum.

/closed